Whatever interests me at the moment
Published on February 24, 2006 By nitey In Game Talk
Okay, I'll admit that I never played a game during the beta for longer than about a hour and since I've gotten the finished product, I've yet to finish 1 complete game (althought I'm very close on my latest). But I do have some idea's on how espionage can be made a much more fun part of the game. If you have any idea's you might want to tag them on here as well.

1. Once you start putting money into espionage against another star power, you should have a random chance per turn of getting a ESPIONAGE EVENT relating to that race. For example, a window appears and offers you the chance to help incite unrest on a particular planet with 3 options. Option 1, do nothing. Option 2, provide some modest funds (planet loyaty is reduced by x%) and Option 3, provide weapons and funding for terriorists that reduces morale on that planet by x%. Other EVENTS could involve delays in social, military or research production either permantantly or temporarily. Options which increase our diplomatic relations with that race (i.e. behind the scenes peacetalks or pro-your race rallys), Options to actually get a random ship from the race who's crew decided to defect to your race. I believe that something like this would be great fun.

2. The ability to create a spy network to actually target espionage events against selected planets. Your spy is given a mission to perhaps steal research, delay production, cause unrest. Each mission requires a certain amount of credits to be spent and does not guarentee success. If the mission is a success, your spy gains experience to assist him in his next mission. However, if the mission ends in failure, there is a chance that the spy is caught - which causes your relations with that race to drop.

3. Another idea: If you have a spy network, you can right click on a races planet and get specific information about that planet (i.e. ships in orbit/type, planet defenses, number of troops, completed social projects, current social and military builds).

4. Another idea: Greater espionage levels gives you stat report like the one you get for your colonies but for the other races possessions/ships.

5. Counter Espionage: Obviously if you create a more aggressive espionage network, you need to have a counter espionage network. Counter Espionage works to cloak your information, reduce the chance of espionage mission success and also plays a part in reducting the effect of ESPIONAGE EVENTS that target you.

6. Other types of info that could be included in your espionage events: results of AI to AI negotiations (who got what, what was offered or what was turned down), immediate notification of declarations of war (AI v. AI), peace (AI v. AI), Alliances. Notifications of fleet build ups, suggestions of races planets that may be underdefended.

7. War Missions: Missions that destroy a selected planets completed social projects, degrade a starbases offense/defense, degrade a fleets offense/defense, sabotage of freighter routes.

Anyway, I think Stardock is missing the boat on what could be a far more fun element of the game (if really done right, this could be a mini-game all in itself). I don't expect all these suggestions to be implimented, but I hope that some of these suggestions might be enough to get someone to really think about how much more fun/great this game can be.

BTW, Stardock major, major Kudos on this game. Easily the best strategy game I've ever played (and yes, I have played Civ 1-4).
Comments (Page 1)
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on Feb 24, 2006
3. Another idea: If you have a spy network, you can right click on a races planet and get specific information about that planet (i.e. ships in orbit/type, planet defenses, number of troops, completed social projects, current social and military builds).

They have that already. Except it's left click. Just spend enough on espionage and you can see all the stuff they can. Well, except for Fog of war stuff.
on Feb 24, 2006
Okay, didn't know about that. I've only just got to medium level of espionage and I don't believe I was able to do this at low level. I'll have to try it in my game.

Thanks for the head's up!
on Feb 24, 2006
i'm totally agreed with you intelligence should be used not only for gather information but also for covert actions which would add a lot of fun to gameplay without changing it too much.
first of all i would add some actions to intelligence that could be very damaging but i would counterbalance it with counterintelligence, in this way intelligence would be more challenging.
about covert actions they can be done paying extra credits for specific missions so after u have reached a specific level of intelligence are available some covert actions options; it would be my wish list:
-sabotage production on planet X (optional casus belli if spies fails and are uncovered by your target race)average chance of success
-sabotage research (optional casus belli)average chance of success
-destroy improvement on planet X (optional casus belli) average chance of success
-organize unrest on planet X: drop in morale and planetary influence points (optional casus belli)low-average chance of success
-pay privateers to attack enemy trade routes (automatic casus belli if discovered) high chance of success but also high chance to be uncovered, very high level of intelligence
-spread genetic virus on planet X (automatic casus belli if uncovered, option very costly) kills from 25-50% of total population on a planet, with planet with a population of less than 1 billion all population dies u need very high level of intelligence, very low chance of success.
-cause multiple nuclear explosion on planet X (automatic casus belli if uncovered, very very costly) kills from 15-40% of total population on planet and PQ will be lowered of 20% very low chance of success, very high level of intelligence
-organize plot to cause a war between two other races (extremely costly, very high level of intelligence in both objective races, if uncovered high chances of casus belli with both races)
-intelligence planetary invasion support: new planetary invasion option: +20 soldiering during planetary invasion costly
all these options can not be used with races with whom u had "friendly" level relations
on Feb 24, 2006
Counter-espionage--me likes. Black ops, misinformation, stealth tech. Destabilizing enemy colonies, creating "incidents" to sow the seeds of mistrust between two nations. Watching the universe erupt in chaos... Tehehe. Where's my expansion pack already?

Official line is that espionage is one of the areas that needed work (IIRC). I'm *more* than happy with the game as it is, but, yeah, my evil side wishes espionage could get some love sometime in the next year or so.
on Feb 24, 2006
I can see a Darlok type race appearing with all these features in GC2 - Expansion Pack. LOL
on Feb 24, 2006

I can see a Darlok type race appearing with all these features in GC2 - Expansion Pack. LOL



I think the Drath fit this role already. I am currently playing a game with them now. First thing I did when I encountered the other races was to establish Espionage spending. A couple bc in the beginning translates to huge amounts of information later.

I do agree though. I wish Espionage allowed you to do more. Perhaps in a patch or update they will implement some of the suggestions. I would like to see an option to launch destablization missions, or wartime sabotage missions targeting importan planetary improvements or vital warships.

Otherwise the Drath are fun to play and GC2 is simply awesome!

on Feb 24, 2006
I am missing the more detailed spy action as well!... or at least just the Destabilisation & the Planetary propaganda sliders bars described in the manual.
on Feb 24, 2006
Counter-espionage--me likes. Black ops, misinformation, stealth tech. Destabilizing enemy colonies, creating "incidents" to sow the seeds of mistrust between two nations. Watching the universe erupt in chaos... Tehehe. Where's my expansion pack already?


I'm espcially liking the idea of misinformation. I can think of some times when I really would have liked to appear stronger. I'd also like to see some kind of count-espionage slider as well.
on Feb 24, 2006
>> I can think of some times when I really would have liked to appear stronger. <<

I believe that the Spin-Control Improvement does it in game right now.

While I talked of special ESPIONAGE EVENT above, there is no reason why there couldn't be a COUNTER ESPIONAGE EVENT as well. In this case it could be something like: Option 1: Capture and expose the spy Option 2: Feed the spy misinformation and Option 3: Turn the spy to your side, in effect making him a double spy. There's a ton of ideas that could be come up with on both sides for ESPIONAGE/COUNTER ESPIONAGE EVENTS many of which could come from every day news .

However, it's cool to perform dirty tricks on some other race but not too fun to have them done to you so perhaps how complex the espionage mini-game is could be tied to the difficulty level. For example, at lower levels espionage is done very similiar to how it's done now, at +/-1 normal level, espionage missions do not perform destruction of planetary improvements, production or kill off population. At the higher levels, espionage is no holds barred. (Just a suggestion for those that might not think playing espionage would be that fun).
on Feb 24, 2006
>> pay privateers to attack enemy trade routes (automatic casus belli if discovered) high chance of success but also high chance to be uncovered, very high level of intelligence <<

I like this idea. I know pirates are supposed to be in the game now, but I've yet to see them in the finished game yet (saw them in the beta). In some of my beta games I attempted to get the pirates to attack certain races ships but was never successful. Nothing was able to get them to aggressively attack one particular race. Perhaps in the finished game this has changed, if not, I would love to see it easier to bribe pirates to attack other races.
on Feb 24, 2006
When at advanced level, it says your operatives from time to time can steal tech. At the bottom of this description, it says you don't need to put any more money towards espionage. Will reducing espionage funding to zero, will you still have operatives working to steal tech? I've been at this level for quite some time with a particular race, and have still not recieved any stolen tech.... and I know they have stuff I haven't researched yet?
on Feb 24, 2006
No one has mentioned the possible ship hijacking events, though it would be costly to do so and would be relative to the ships cost, but imagine how devastating taking a race's big gun and using it to cause havok could be. Trooper and colony ships would either be impossible to hijack or would be empted via module detacting...can't force people to populate a planet for you, or troops to invade their own planet. That also adds possible ship destruction by spies.
on Feb 24, 2006
I feel differently than many about espionage in games like galciv and civ. I don't want it to be a major part of the game. I'm content enough with it giving me intel to use for my strategic planning.

It might be nice to steal a tech once in a while or other minor espionage acts - but I wouldn't be enjoying it when the AIs do it to me.

In a lot of ways these games (galciv/civ) end up being you against all (on maps with multiple AIs). I wouldn't want to coordinate espionage against multiple opponents and deal with all of them doing it to me. No thanks!

I'd rather build ships and conquer via open warfare. I don't see these games as cold war simulations. Thecold war sucked.
on Feb 24, 2006
I agree that espionage is pretty limited, but I kind of like it. Some of my worst experiences in previous 4X games were spending half my income on counter-espionage only to have a factory or lab be blown up every other turn (and I mean that literally). That’s not fun to me, and while its interesting to be able to attack a foe indirectly and steal tech I really hope they don't make it a major part of the game.
on Feb 24, 2006
Espianoge is the most uninteresting part of the game. With destabilization gone it's even less than GC1, which was very basic already. I hope to see it fleshed out in an expansion. From Frogboy's comments in the last chat I think that will happen.
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